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question blmb 
Sep-05-2014 12:01
12947 
Clear
Roofing Felt or Red Gard?
Hello!  We are retiling our shower and floor in our master bath.  We've spoken with two contractors regarding waterproofing - one says to use Red Gard over the concrete board and the other says to use roofing felt behind the concrete board.  Which is the best choice or are they about the same?  Thank you.
Dear BLMB:
Roofing Felt or Red Gard?

 

Yikes!

So glad you inquired, Where does this kind of advice come from? It’s certainly not from accredited installers. Cement board installed properly on shower walls, "do not need "to be waterproof". Walls in showers only need to deflect/shed water, they are not "swimming pools". As far as the shower pans go, there are many systems and the most common is to install a vinyl liner "folded tight" in the inside and outside corners and installed so the they run up the walls at least 8", as well as up and over the curb, and preferably without any cuts, unless the vinyl liner comes with its own "glue" and its own trim pieces for inside and out side corners.

 

The latter trim pieces take some expertise, and many installers ,DIY and professional, are now using preformed floor pitch strips and as well as "curb baskets", and then installing "dry pack" cement between and over them. Fasteners of any kind that might penetrate and compromise the integrity of vinyl liners must never be used below the 8" height on walls and never used on the curb. If you use products like "Red Guard" over the cement board, you are wasting money, and might even compromise the integrity of the installation's bond. Cement board is designed to hold tile without any help. "Red Guard", in order to function effectively as a "water proofer" must be applied in many coats to eventually get to a 1/8" final thickness.

 

"Red Guard" used to waterproof a shower pan floor is not recommended by novices, or professionals, who don't know what they are doing. Backer boards on walls must also be lifted several inches above the estimated height of the "dry pack" in order to prevent water wicking up the walls from the floor pack. These open areas must be filled in with dry pack cement so it effectively prevents the (siphon) wicking of water up into the boards and possibly getting the wood studs wet (which could eventually create mold). All 1/8" purposely left open joints between all cement boards, and especially in the inside and/or outside corners, must be filled in with "modified" thin-set mortar and then covered over with alkaline resistant backer board tapw and then recoated with additional mortar. Al mortar is allowed to dry and then tiled in the normal method. There must be a minimum of 95% transference of mortar to the backs of the tiles after they are set, and this should be tested by removing a previously set tile with a screw driver to see if the mortar spreading technique was effective, according to "NTCA" rules  and guidelines.

 

As far as "roofing felt", it, or an 8 mil plastic liner is permitted on walls before the installation of backer boards, especially if the shower wall/s are "outside walls" in 3 or 4 season climates. Any type of protection that is used behind the boards must overlap the waterproof liner around the pan. When this additional protection is used it functions as a moisture barrier to prevent saturation of wood studs and the/any fiberglass insulation between the studs from getting wet from water condensation dripping down on the backsides of the backer boards during long “hot showers”.

 

All weep holes in shower drains must always be protected from invitable clogging with "dry pack" cement, and this mandatory protection requires a full 8 oz cup of pea gravel, or hand made "tile chips". This should be at least 2" thick and packed tightly around the sub drain to protect the weep holes from clogging before the pan is filled with the "dry pack" cement mixture. The shower pan must be pre-pitched a mininimum of 1/4" per running foot for proper drainage. A square drain frame around the drain is also easier to tile to. Armen Tavy

 

 

 
question Jamwao 
Sep-02-2014 23:46
12946 
Clear
Home Owner
I have a shower that about 25 years old there are no leaks in it but I want to change the tile, do I have to tear out all the lathe and plaster or can I just remove the old tile and re-use the old concrete underpayment as the base for my new tile? What's you view on this? 
Dear JAMWAO:
Home Owner

SORRY, on a business trip and missed your mail. If you try to remove your old tiles off the cement board you would most likely have a great deal of collateral damage. My product is to simplify your project with only one task. Clean the old soap scum off your tiles with a tile cleaner like Lime Away or other similar cleaners.It is simple and the least expensive way and you can take a shower while you are rubbing and rinsing off the cleaner. When all is dry, install my "Thin-Skin" fabric like wallpaper. The only diffrence is you put the glue on the wall over the old tiles and then hang my fabric. Do one wall at a time. You should overlap the fabric about 3 to 4 inches, including the two inside corners. Do the back wall first, then the side walls overlaping the fabric back over the back wall. This extra double material strengthens the inside corners. if you have a soap dish, you must pop it off and fill in the space with any tile the same size or use a quick dry patching cement to fill in the space. Plan on usng a wrap around trim tile to hide any exposed edges of old tiles. If you don't know how, just ask me. In addition, you should tell me if you have a curtain or glass doors so I can better instruct you. My system works very well, but you should get back to me for more detailed instructions to end your project "with a smile". Armen Tavy

 

 
      
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